Tiger Woods

[F1Wild]

This is a personal matter.

[Jardins]

It's not entirely a personal matter - but it has nothing to do with golf.

He created a squeaky clean image that made him a role model to many (something he fostered!). His days as a role model are now done but I really think the only one he owes an apology to is his wife. The entire episode doesn't make him less of a golfer, it just makes him human. I don't want to hear the details and I think the press should let it go.

[F1Wild]

His image was created, as a commodity, but was it continued based on his extraordinary golfing abilities or his personal life? I'm not sure of this as I don't follow golf. Is his image really still supposed to be the same as the one first "created" 15 years ago? To me, his face on a product reflected his excellence as an athlete and nothing more.

Anyway, the sheer titillation of his Thanksgiving event and then the revelations soon after is now over. It seems we love to place athletes and celebrities high up on pedestals and then equally enjoy seeing them knocked down a few notches. The more steps knocked down the more enticing for the media whores.

At this point, IMO, his mess is a personal matter and for his family's sake I hope one that can be resolved over time. And of course as much as we love to see celebs knocked down we also love to raise them up again in exaltation...which, I predict, will be his fate.

[Jardins]

I agree with you. He will rise to the top again and he's an excellent golfer (perhaps not so much an excellent husband or role model). Let's hope he can adjust his moral scope to his and his wife's satisfaction.

[Blikemike]

"Quack"!!

[Brother]

Blikey, I'm torn between which sig is the most deliciously ironic - yours or Rob's. Yours has the invented by me advantage, but Rob's has just such a solid balls to the wall blissful unawareness to it that it never fades. Could you do me a favour and say something really bizarre to maybe tip yourself back in to 1st place again?

[Rob99T]

Why should we get to judge him?

I didn't ask you to judge him - I asked you to judge his handling of the PR event that he held?

But I have to question your question as we don't seem to have a problem judging Micheal Schumacher.

But he chose to go public and we are the public - He spoke to us through the news cameras and microphones. He chose to address us. I feel sports figures who chose to go public do so with an expected reaction from the public as the judge. Each word spoke and delievered by Mr. Woods to the cameras and chosen news people were well thought over and scrutized as to exactly what they would deliver and hopefully sway public opinion and judgement to a certain end. That end being to satisfy the public - the fans - and make things better for themselves in the eye of the public,

[Rob99T]

This is a personal matter.

Then why doesn't he handle it as a personal matter?

Scheduling a televised new-conference and inviting chosen sports writers is not something I would do if I wanted it to be a "personal" matter.

Public relations is not a person matter.

[F1Wild]

This is a personal matter.

Then why doesn't he handle it as a personal matter?
Scheduling a televised new-conference and inviting chosen sports writers is not something I would do if I wanted it to be a "personal" matter.
Public relations is not a person matter.

I don't know why he decided to make a public apology (with more than chosen sports writers) for his personal matter any more than anyone else who makes a public statement regarding something of a personal nature.

The better question is why should any of us care?

[F1Wild]

Why should we get to judge him?

I didn't ask you to judge him - I asked you to judge his handling of the PR event that he held?
But I have to question your question as we don't seem to have a problem judging Micheal Schumacher.

Judging Schumi's performance on track seems a little different, to me, than questioning a personal matter...especially on this type of forum.

[Brother]

I didn't ask you to judge him - I asked you to judge his handling of the PR event that he held?

Your post seemed to be about more than just the PR event. Either way, it was a PR event and had little to do with the personal issue underneath it. He appeased his sponsors, so he succeeded. As for the personal issue he faces, not for me to comment.

But I have to question your question as we don't seem to have a problem judging Micheal Schumacher.

That's because his on-track actions are at public events, and this is a public forum. It isn't a valid comparison.

But he chose to go public and we are the public - He spoke to us through the news cameras and microphones. He chose to address us. I feel sports figures who chose to go public do so with an expected reaction from the public as the judge. Each word spoke and delievered by Mr. Woods to the cameras and chosen news people were well thought over and scrutized as to exactly what they would deliver and hopefully sway public opinion and judgement to a certain end. That end being to satisfy the public - the fans - and make things better for themselves in the eye of the public,

Fair enough, but he's famous for playing golf and that's the only capacity I would have any interest in. If he turned out to be a goat sacrificing cross-dressing arsonist in his spare time I wouldn't consider him worthy of any personal acclaim, but it wouldn't affect my opinion of his golfing. To the same token, if Mr. Schumacher turned out to be a really nice guy who devoted himself to charity and helping old ladies across the road I wouldn't consider him worthy of any personal disapproval, but it wouldn't affect my opinion of his driving.

[Rob99T]

Your post seemed to be about more than just the PR event. Either way, it was a PR event and had little to do with the personal issue underneath it. He appeased his sponsors, so he succeeded. As for the personal issue he faces, not for me to comment.

Steve, I think that goes to the root of the matter. You always seem to read things into my questions that are there then you end up answering a question i never asked.

That's because his on-track actions are at public events, and this is a public forum. It isn't a valid comparison.

So him inviting news media and having his "newsconference" at the headquarters of the formal body sanctioning his sport and his titles isn't a public event? Allowing it to be broadcast on TV for the public to see isn't a public event? I give up.

Fair enough, but he's famous for playing golf and that's the only capacity I would have any interest in. If he turned out to be a goat sacrificing cross-dressing arsonist in his spare time I wouldn't consider him worthy of any personal acclaim, but it wouldn't affect my opinion of his golfing. To the same token, if Mr. Schumacher turned out to be a really nice guy who devoted himself to charity and helping old ladies across the road I wouldn't consider him worthy of any personal disapproval, but it wouldn't affect my opinion of his driving.

That's fine - none of this effects my opinion of Tiger Wood's golfing ability. Where did I ever say that? My question goes to this staged PR event held at tour headquarters in Ponte Vedra. But the public persona of Tiger Wood;s is now more than a golfer. He is now also an adulter. He told us that on TV. This is directly affecting his golf - he is not playing. He is absent from the grid. He felt he needed ot call a news conference and make public announcements addressing this. I contend at that point - he made it public.

As far as his sponsors bein g OK with this - he doesnt have many left - Gator ade was the last to drop him as late as only 3 or 4 days ago.

[Brother]

Steve, I think that goes to the root of the matter. You always seem to read things into my questions that are there then you end up answering a question i never asked.

Sorry Rob, can't let you away with that. You asked several questions:

Tiger had his PR event today. Any opinions changed out there?

Has he handled this wrong?

What should he do now?

It's a stretch, even for you, to suggest that I ended up answering a question you never asked.

Anyway, you seem more interested in confrontation than discussion so I'll bow out of this one for now. Thanks for the answers so far.

[Rob99T]

Steve, I think that goes to the root of the matter. You always seem to read things into my questions that are there then you end up answering a question i never asked.

Sorry Rob, can't let you away with that. You asked several questions:

Tiger had his PR event today. Any opinions changed out there?

Has he handled this wrong?

What should he do now?

It's a stretch, even for you, to suggest that I ended up answering a question you never asked.

Anyway, you seem more interested in confrontation than discussion so I'll bow out of this one for now. Thanks for the answers so far.

Steve - nothing could be farther from the truth as your statement about me interested in confrontation. I will confront you about that as I cant let you get away with that

Again - if you go back and look at my questions that i asked. They all center around his PR event. Did it (the PR event) change any opinions? Did he handle it wrong in having the PR event in the first place and what did he really intend to do with the PR event. And finally - how should he proceed now that the PR event was over.

I never sought answers or opinions on Mr. Woods moral character or golfing ability. I am not in charge of judging Mr. Woods personal actions. I only asked about a public event he held to make public statements explaining his behaviour.

But this is so old - who cares anymore. He is supposed to return for the Master's in Augusta. I think he will have a difficult return. Augusta National is still very much in the deep south. Some Country clubs in the deep south are still very much caught in a time now passed. It should be interesting but I'm sure television presence will guard his return - The Golfing business establishment seems to feel they need Tiger for tour revenues.

[F1Wild]

He is supposed to return for the Master's in Augusta. I think he will have a difficult return. Augusta National is still very much in the deep south. Some Country clubs in the deep south are still very much caught in a time now passed. It should be interesting but I'm sure television presence will guard his return - The Golfing business establishment seems to feel they need Tiger for tour revenues.

OK, talking all nice without any of the snarkiness...

I find it interesting to hear that Woods doesn't really fit in at the "white only" establishments, nor is he as accepted in the black community - BUT I think what is more important than any race, color, culture, etc. is the fact that the man is worth gazillons of $$ and is THE GOLFER, probably of all time - and that trumps any of the other factors, even his private sexcapades.

[Rob99T]

OK, talking all nice without any of the snarkiness...

I find it interesting to hear that Woods doesn't really fit in at the "white only" establishments, nor is he as accepted in the black community - BUT I think what is more important than any race, color, culture, etc. is the fact that the man is worth gazillons of $$ and is THE GOLFER, probably of all time - and that trumps any of the other factors, even his private sexcapades.

That might be true at some tournments in the north but not at Augusta. Augusta National is a very unique place. This tournment is bigger than Tiger Woods. This tournment seels out every year regardless of any player participating - even Tiger Woods. Agusta National controls the number of gallery members as to keep the exclusivness and protect the couse from damage from the massive galleries. Passes to this tournment are not available to the general public. These passes are inheritied and handed down from generation to generation. If you ever get invited or get the chance to go - and you want to see golf - go - becasue you might not ever get the chance again. This is perhaps one reason why Tiger chose the Master's to make his return. The Master's gallery is made up of those golf purists who want their tournment to mantain it's status. Plus I doubt any gallery member is going to risk a public scene as it could bring the club taking the family passes away for next years tournment.

The place is like the Olympics - many familes in Augusta will leave town and rent out their houses to players and fans - its a year in year out thing.

But the place is steeped in tradition. And tradition in rural Georgia is not a positive multi-racial experience.

Tiger's white wife helped him greatly in this area. As much as Erin helped him ease into the golfing establishment his treatment and infidelity towards her is going to hurt him even more. This mentality would have considered him lucky to have such a beautful white wife- he should appreciate her. To this mentality- cheating on a black wife would have been one thing and perhaps almost accecptable - just as accecptable as a white pro golfer cheating on his wife. But the fact that it was as it was makes it that much more of an outrage.

I know this sounds amazing - I have been disgusted with it for years. My company has had POS and accounting systems in many PGA, TPC and Private country clubs thoughout Florida and South Georgia in years past. I have seen swimming pools get drained becasue one black teenager swam in it perhaps after a prominant member's son came home from college for the weekend and brought a black friend for a birthday party held at the club. I have seen ground crews sent out to hose an area down becasue a black "guest" player spat on the ground in that area. I have seen dinner parties escorted to a hidden alternate diningroom becasue there was a black guest in the party. Many clubs dont allow back members - legally they cant of course but the membership process allows anyone to be "blackballed" for any reason. In this case- there is a reason why they call it black balled. Most of the prominent clubs are very bigoted white old-money social-networking business clubs.

It is the same with women but not as bad. If Steve was a member and had a family membership then you would be a member too. Yet there would be many days when women cant play and some courses offer only one morning a week for the ladies. If you and Steve divorced- then you would be kicked out and Steve would remain a member. The same holds for Jewish folks- but there are also many clubs that are Jewish only.

Perhaps Tiger was well advised to return at the MAster's setting as I doubt any one in the Gallery would risk losing their tournement passes with any "unaccecptable" public outcries or disturbances. But in the same right I doubt the Augusta National board is happy to have Tiger back. Augusta will be "sold-out" regardlessof whether Tiger is there or not. No golfer trumps the Master's tournment at Augusta National. Ask Nicklaus, Palmer or any of the former greatest. This deals with the the "disrespect" for the game that Nicklaus spoke of about Tiger's recent behaviour. Mr. Woods has some ground to make up and he will probably hear about it in the locker room at Augusta if he goes in there.

[F1Wild]

This just proves that golf without Tiger is just older men in ugly pants walking slowly. If there is any doubt just check out the "crowd" at this years PGA events, not including The Masters which will pack 'em in like the Indy 500 no matter who or what is there.

[Rob99T]

This just proves that golf without Tiger is just older men in ugly pants walking slowly. If there is any doubt just check out the "crowd" at this years PGA events, not including The Masters which will pack 'em in like the Indy 500 no matter who or what is there.

But isnt Golf with Tiger just older men in ugly pants walking slowly with a token black player?

Its not that much different than Tennis with the Williams sisters except there are 2 of them.

Does Tiger being there enable everyone to feel better?

Is it that much different than the token white players in the NBA?

[F1Wild]

Only if you are only speaking of race and not taking any other specifics, mainly skill (but also financial), into account. Calling Tiger the "token black player" is disgusting (the concept, not Rob's phrase).

[Brother]

Aren't you and Rob the 'token' Americans?